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Post by Robert Tilley on Nov 20, 2006 20:16:12 GMT
Hi I have been modelling for a number of years and have always painted with a brush. I am self taught so am reluctant to try new things, that being said I have just bought my first airbrush and compressor and could do with some help with ratio's to thin down paints. I am looking at building an F/A-18A using Xtracolour paints. In alot of magazines they recommend these paints and say use cellulose thinners, could somebody please give me a point to start from. I was thinking of about 75% paint 25% thinners at 18psi. Also once finished what is the best thing to clean my airbrush with. Thanks for helping
Rob
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Lonewolf
Moderator
Gods Country
Posts: 2,551
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Post by Lonewolf on Nov 20, 2006 23:42:04 GMT
Hi Robert, I was in your position some years since and I have never painted with a brush again. I am not familiar with Xtracolour so I dunno what the thinners are but basically if its like milk it'll spray. Clean your airbrush with the same thinners, I give mine a good muck out with paint stripper every now and again. And buy some earbuds and pipe cleaners, thats what my airbrushes are cleaned with.
Lonewolf.
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Post by Don Cabriolet on Nov 21, 2006 9:04:58 GMT
I use acrylic paints - easier to thin and much easiewr to clean up after so my advice probably won't suit if you only plan to use enamel paints. I use Tamiya and Citadel paints mainly, I also have a few of the Vallejho Model Air paints that are supposed to be thin enough to spray from the dropper bottle they come in. I thin my Tamiya and Citadel in a ratio of 7:1, sometimes more. Thats 7 parts of thinner to one of paint. Now I got to that ratio by experimentation, you may find a stiffer or thinner mix better for you, your brush and how much air pressure you have at your disposal I use 'Windex' as my thinner of choice - good old window washer fluid - I buy it by the litre for a couple of pounds from either B&Q or Halfords. Its a mix of water, ethanol, Iso propyl alcohol and a tint - either red or blue. The tint doesn't seem to make a difference to the final colour, but I don't as a rule spray a clean white for example - but the tests I did on sheets of cartridge paint didn't make any changes I could see. I use bottled Isopropyl alcohol to clean up it works pretty well for acrylic or enamel - you can get it again by the litre from many chemists, but be prepared to be told you can't drink it ;D Obviously you also need to be over 18 and not sit inhaling the fumes. A number of companies make an aerosol can of airbrush cleaner which can be squirted in the disassembled brush bits - I have a pack of pipe cleaners and some cosmetic sponges that help with cleanup of the needle excetera. HTH
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Post by Gary on Dec 30, 2006 4:51:00 GMT
Hi,
I use Xtracolor almost exclusively. My mix is two parts thinner to one part paint (2:1), sprayed through an Iwata HP-C at 18-20 psi. I will go to 3:1 if I am doing schemes like Luftwaffe fuselage mottling, or 4:1 if I am doing fine highlighting or weathering. My thinner of preference is lacquer thinner. Hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Gary Barling IPMS Canada
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Post by Harvey on Jan 2, 2007 18:39:32 GMT
:)Hi I don't paint so can't help there, but have you seen my posting on FREEBIES? If you are going to mix exact proportions of paint to thinner you'll need syringes to measure them so why not have some of mine and help the charity. It doesn't hurt to look.
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Post by LtGreg on Feb 8, 2007 22:21:22 GMT
I have found that whether I use acrylics or enamels, a 50/50 ratio always works, or at least for the last 6-8 years that I have been doing it. BUT, with acrylics you must use an acrylic retarder( sold at artist stores) . e.g last night was painting with Tamiya acrylic, used 50 drops paint/ 50 distilled water ( alcohol dries out too fast) and about 6-7 drops of retarder. Also have noticed if I am using my double action ( vs my single action airbrush) the double action airbrush has a very small tip so that it can get clogged up more easily. For this reason i only use it with acrylics when I am painting a small amount, and I dilute the paint even further to 60 water/40 paint+ acrylics retarder.
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Post by merlin on Feb 8, 2007 23:42:37 GMT
not sure about ratios myself and also new to airbrushing , but the milk advice is pretty standard advice from site to site so i,d say follow that . also one of the guys here gave me a link where to get iso from online , you can get it from chemists but not many give it out TBH , well not round here anyways . the windex or window washer ones supposed to be good too im going to try this myself once im done on me room ok heres the link iso is easy to find www.hiroboy.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=48&osCsid=43e2aeb052f2a2ac86f85ce35ab437d7
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Post by Simon Cornes on Mar 1, 2007 9:01:47 GMT
Robert, For goodness sake, don't use cellulose thinners to thin enamel! I have used cellulose aerosol paint - in the days when Halfords sold it - but very carefully because, obviously, you mustn't put so much on that it can't evaporate and ends up dissolving the plastic!
A lot of people seem to favour using Halfords Plastic Primer so I tried some. I was just trying to get some matt white paint onto the airframe so that I could overpaint it with something else and I didn't want to cover a large area. I ended up covering more than I wanted to and made the mistake of trying to wipe off the excess with a piece of tissue - after all, acrylics are water soluble aren't they? ...... No, the solvent etches just as well as cellulose and you can get yourself into a bit of a mess! What compressor are you using by the way? I am after buying one and doing some research!
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Post by Biggles on Mar 1, 2007 12:02:48 GMT
You can thin any enamel paint with cellulose (lacquer) thinners or with white (mineral) spirit. I spray Humbrol, White Ensign and Extracolour enamels and use a good quality cellulose thinner (ICI Belco 222). Sprayed in light (not mist, just light) coats, it does not affect the underlying plastic. The advantage of cellulose thinners over white spirit is its volatility : it evaporates (and the paint dries) very quickly, and the thinners do not have time (or sufficient quantity) to attack the plastic. With a 1/48 scale WWII fighter and Humbrol or WEM paint, the wingtip I start at is dry enough to be used as a handhold by the time I need to use it. As for mixing ratios, the numbers vary from tin to tin of the same manufacturer's paint - if it's thicker to start with, it's likely to need more thinning! 50/50 is a good starting point, and you should be aiming for the consistency of milk. Mix in the airbrush colour cup or paint jar, and try to avoid pouring unused, thinned paint back into the tin, as the chances are that it will povoke some kind of colloidal 'clumping' activity within the fresh paint. I have a dropper bottle (originally it held contact lens wetting solution) for the thinner, and add the paint a #6 brushful at a time. It seems to work : HTH, Ian
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Post by merlin on Mar 1, 2007 12:07:24 GMT
i,m assuming 6 brush fulls would mean 6 drops yes , so i,d do 6 paint drops to 6 thinners is this right ??
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Post by Biggles on Mar 1, 2007 12:14:06 GMT
Merlin,
I squirt some thinners into the paint cup (how much depends on what I'm spraying), and then add well-stirred paint, using a Number 6 brush, one brushful at a time, and stir after each brushful. I keep adding paint this way until the consistency is right. I then test by spraying my test-piece (the front edge of my workbench!), and if it's OK, away I go!
Ian
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Post by merlin on Mar 1, 2007 12:25:23 GMT
sorry for being so precise but its my first time using it . Ive sprayed before using guns on cars (real ones) but this is a whole new ball game . plus i sprayed years ago so am a bit unsure . I'm going to airbrush the cockpit today cos i want a fine coat on it , so I'm going to work with the small cup and probably 1/4 fill it with mixed paint . if i say use 2 ml of paint I'm going to start with 1 ml of thinner then check and add as required . i might even use a dropper bottle so i can add 1 ml slower
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Post by bunthornesbride on Mar 1, 2007 22:01:21 GMT
There isn't much point in trying to fix, in your mind, an exact ratio. Unless your room is temperature controlled, to the nth degree, your paint will be thicker, in winter, than summer, due to the lower ambient temperature. This means that you'll need less thinners in summer, than in winter. If you're just starting, use the thinners, recommended by the manufacturer; when you have some experience, that is the time to experiment. Although it seems expensive, the easiest (less difficult) method is to use a full tinlet, each time. Stir the paint with (preferably) a metal bar; don't use wood, since, being porous, it will soak up some of the liquid. Gloss paint (usually) needs more thinners, than matt. Try to find one of the pre-historic 35mm film containers, see-through preferably. When the paint is thoroughly mixed, pour it into the container, then half-fill the tinlet, with thinners, again stir thoroughly, and add to the paint. When that is mixed, put the lid on (!!!!) then swish the container round, and watch the behaviour of the paint. If it climbs the wall, and falls straight down, your mix is too thin; if it stays at the bottom, like thick soup, you need more thinners. If it climbs the wall, and slides back, but leaving a definite coating, your mix is about right. This is correct for around 20psi; if you use a lower pressure, you'll, probably need a (slightly) thinner mix. You don't need to be an alchemist; all it takes is practice, so play with an old kit, even sheets of cardboard, until you feel confident. Patience
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Post by merlin on Mar 1, 2007 23:16:50 GMT
thanks lads great advice given , today i used it for the first time on a cockpit , and it worked superbly , well better than i expected . paint was dry in minutes and it went on fine . the tinlet idea got you there i,ll try it i got some good 28ml plastic screw tops on order good price too . i,ll post the link if anyone wants em but basically there at hiroboy . one other question its on vallejo paints . i know they have a model air range but theres other colours in say game paint can these be thinned cos i hear they are thicker ?
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