|
Post by NoelSmith on Dec 26, 2011 14:54:33 GMT
HOPEFULLY THIS WILL GET A LOT OF READS!!! I was looking around the civilian vehicles section of the competition area shortly after the judging at 2011 SMW. There were a number of fine models that were disqualified because of entry into the wrong category. Those particular modellers presumably would have been naturally disappointed and have my sympathy, but only to a certain extent. If only they had read the rules properly and entered the correct category for their models, some of them I feel could have been in contention as potential winners. It looks as though the judges are taking a much more stringent line now than they have in the past about misplaced models. Basically, now if you place it in the wrong category.....Tough! I don't know if any of those disqualified models could be entered the following year in the correct categories as strictly speaking they ceased to become eligible entries when disqualified. The Comps Sec would have to make ruling on that one! My understanding is that as it stands now, if you enter a model in the wrong category and it is disqualified then the entrant has blown it with that particular model. Onother example of someone mis reading the rules a couple of years back was a superb truck model that was entered in its class. What the modeller failed to read in the rules was that the model was only allowed to have one figure outside the vehicle. This model had two figures stood in front of it and so it was disqualified. Having been a judge at SMW on a number of occassions, it saddens me when I have to disqualify any good model. All I can emphasise to entrants is SCRUTINISE THE RULES CAREFULLY BEFORE ENTERING ANY MODEL INTO SMW! This applies to ALL entries to the show regardless of subject matter. It is the entrants sole responsibility the ensure that their model is placed correctly in the category that it needs to be in. Hopefully this post will bring people's attention to how important it is to read the rules properly, and save a number of entrants models from being disqualified.
|
|
|
Post by jwhalen on Dec 27, 2011 10:28:11 GMT
Hi,
I agree its important to read the rules but a bit of leeway will help promote the competition and the IPMS.
The builds that were disqualified were excellent work and it would have been better for the civilian vehicles class and the hot rod, custom cars and dragsters class if they had been moved across to the hot rod class. There was also a nice truck that had been disqualified because it was in the wrong class.
A competition should be about encouraging modellers to take part and disqualifying a lot of models will not only put those builders off next year but others as well as they will see the competition as being too strict/serious.
If the competition entries were kept on an Excel file it wouldn't take long to change the class of a model once alerted by the judge, entrant or competition secretary (or even a knowledgeable member of the viewing public). A call over the p.a. system could get the modeller to move the model(s) to the correct table - if there wasn't enough room the model could be judged in situ with just the entry card being changed to reflect the change of class.
Regarding the models that have been disqualified I hope they are allowed in next year as I'd love the challenge of going up against such quality work in the hot rod and custom car class in 2012 (plus the added bonus of more entrants in the class - there was only one this year).
Cheers,
|
|
|
Post by tony on Dec 28, 2011 15:06:45 GMT
Noel has hit the nail on the head here. please read the rules and descriptions to the competition as they have been written over a long period of time to get them right. i have also stated in the magazine and on this forum that the practise of changing class at the last minuet has been used by some people to try and increase there chance of a better place at the competition. i noticed this last year and my predecessor also informed me that this went on during his tenure. so to stop this i stated at the beginning of the year that i am willing to help anyone prior to the show and get their models placed into the right class. but under no circumstances will i accept class changes on the day at SMW. this practise was strictly imposed this year and that is why we had models disqualified. i will state here and now. Should i be elected as the competition secretary again for 2012 then this policy will be adhered too, and there will be no class changes once the competition registration is closed. Anything prior to the closure of the competition and i will help anybody who thinks they are in the wrong class and will advise the best i can.
For those who maybe interested the competition database is a excel spreadsheet but has been custom built by one of the competition team and it is able to perform very complex tasks and produce lots of data that can be used to enhance the efficiency of the competition. But we have a very small window of time that we are allowed at SMW where we have to insure that the classes are correct and that all models are in the correct place. This is so that we can then judge over 900 model in 93 different classes and get results for 40 individual trophy and then try to open again so that the members and paying public can view the competition is nothing short of a miracle. and to have people trying to change classes at the start only delays things for the rest of the people at the show. I hope this helps in answering some question with regards to the competition, i am here to guide anybody weather they be old hands at the SMW competition or someone who is new to the experience. please contact me if you have a inquiry.
|
|
|
Post by NoelSmith on Dec 28, 2011 16:19:25 GMT
Spruecutter, You make some very good points. In fact, a few years ago when I was part of the judging team for civilian vehicles, we used to move the models into their correct categories to enable them to be judged accordingly. I can only guess that the present judges have now been instructed to take a stricter line about this practice. It may be because it simply takes too much time up by judges to re categorise entries on the day. I would imagine that they are under quite a bit of pressure to get the judging done within a certain timescale. The judging area as you know has to be closed off with a target time to reopen it again, otherwise members who can only visit the show on the Saturday are disappointed if they cannot access the area for a reasonable time before the show closes. I agree that the competition should be about encouraging more modellers to take part, but as for being put off because of seeing the ScaleModelworld competition as being too strict/serious? I cannot agree on that sentiment. It is after all the main annual international modelling competition in Europe, not a local model show. Reading the competition rules is like making a model. It all comes down to 'Attention to Detail!' on the part of the competitor. So I can only emphasise to any SMW competitor, SCRUTINISE THE RULES THOROUGHLY TO ENSURE THAT YOUR ENTRY COMPLIES TO THE CATEGORY REQUIREMENTS. It would be a pity not to see good models that were disqualified allowed to enter the following year into their correct category within the group, as the modellers concerned have put a lot of effort into their models. The Competitions Secretary would have to be lobbied to decide on that one! However, I guess that a line has to be drawn somewhere.
|
|
|
Post by NoelSmith on Jan 9, 2012 18:25:44 GMT
Further to my previous........Have a good look at Tony Horton's National Competitions report in the 06 2011 magazine, page 18, paragraphs 3 and 4. It pretty much says it all.
|
|
|
Post by thesheenemachine on Jan 13, 2012 21:30:56 GMT
I'm sure the strict rules and attitudes toward them will not encourage the two Spanish modellers, whose MP4/4 Mclaren's were DSQ'd, to ever make the trip and enter their work again. As for me, I witnessed the judges unnnecesarily handling the bike models, so I'll not be entering anything in the foreseeable future.
|
|
|
Post by deegee on Jan 13, 2012 22:14:13 GMT
I am somewhat shocked and angry at some of what has been written in this thread, and also by some of the comments by you Tony. I saw this thread yesterday and when I tried to register, using my main e-mail address, I was denied. Not only that, I was even banned from looking at this forum as a guest today from my computer at work; I assume that whoever denied me access was aware of my outspoken, yet polite, contact to Tony after the SMW competition, where I had a model disqualified. What I discovered, and pointed out to Tony at SMW verbally, as well as in writing via e-mail afterwards, was that a lot of models had been entered into Class 48, instead of 49, due to errors in the rules published on this IPMS website. Class 48 stated civilian vehicles 1/29 up to and including 1/20 scale. Class 49 stated civilian vehicles 1/19 scale and larger. What the rules on the website should have stated, which I found out later, was that Class 48 was for civilian vehicles 1/29 up to and including 1/21 scale and Class 49 was for civilian vehicles 1/20 scale and larger. When I got to the competition table on the Saturday morning, I noticed immediately that on the table the class 48 card read 'civilian vehicles scale 1/29 to 1/21' and I was very surprised. I went to see Tony but was told something along the lines of 'not to worry' (I cannot recall the exact conversation). So I put my 1/20 Ferrari on the table, as I had entered it into Class 48 as I believed this to be correct, even though the card read otherwise. So it was disqualified as it should have been in class 49, but I did not know this as I had folllowed the published rules. This is why so many civilian vehicle models were disqualified, not because entrants had read the rules wrong, although some had clearly been entered into class 48 wrongly by contestants as they were hot rods. One Spanish chap I talked to, who had entered a fantastic pair of 1/20 McLaren MP4/5's into class 48, was totally dejected and said he would not be back next year. So Noel, you will appreciate my annoyance at statements like 'If only they had read the rules properly and entered the correct category' and 'scrutinise the rules carefully before entering any model into SMW'. What has upset me even more, are some of your comments Tony, where you are clearly agreeing with Noel, yet you are fully aware of the errors in the published rules. Quote 'please read the rules and descriptions to the competition as they have been written over a long period of time to get them right' er, have they? Quote 'But we have a very small window of time that we are allowed at SMW where we have to insure that the classes are correct and that all models are in the correct place'. I first encountered the rules, and classes, published on the website back in April 2011. I am fully aware of, and appreciative, that mistakes in life happen, and being disqualified has not upset or angered me; not even the getting of classes 48 and 49 wrong in the rules published on the website last year (they have gone now). What has angered me the most is what has happened here. I am not trying to cause trouble, but for God's sake Tony have the honesty, decency and integrity to admit the errors, and not to (appear) to side with people saying it is all the fault of the entrants, when you know otherwise! Further more, although I cannot be certain of the reasons behind whoever rejected my registration and banned me from this forum from my work computer, it looks like a censorship and gagging, just because I discovered these errors. If this is the case, then it is shocking, shameful and a very poor indictment of the IPMS in a so called democratic society. Having been able to register and post this comment from my home computer, let's see if my post is now deleted and if I am banned again, despite no offensive behaviour or language in what I have written. Hopefully it, and I, will not be banned but if so it will sadly prove my serious suspicions of censorship and I think will be a disgrace on the part of the IPMS.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2012 23:06:19 GMT
Censorship and gagging? ... that's a very strong accusation. The fact that you have posted is proof that you have not been censored and therefore your comment about censorship and gagging is not only inappropriate but totally superfluous. For your first post on this forum, you've certainly not made any friends, have you?
|
|
|
Post by deegee on Jan 13, 2012 23:29:10 GMT
Good grief, why can't people read things properly?
On trying to register on here from my work computer, with a different e-mail address (davidg@rccutting.co.uk) and IP number (the unique code that all computers have) I was rejected, and even 'banned' from looking as a guest on here! Yet on my home laptop, with a different IP number and different e-mail address, I was able to register.
Why was that, can whoever made this decision explain?
Was it that Tony knew my work e-mail address as I had contacted him in the past, and circulated it to prevent me from registering and posting about the errors with the judging? No accusations, just questions.
Additionally, I made no firm accusations. I merely stated it looked like I had been censored and gagged, so I await a response on the reason DavidG (the username I used to try and register) and the e-mail address davidg@rccutting.co.uk was rejected and banned!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2012 0:04:58 GMT
Good grief, why can't people read things properly? First of all, may I ask that you calm down. Certainly! ... Every membership on this forum is held until I have the chance to check out the email address and ISP, I don't sit at the computer 24/7 as I have a life away from the IPMS, this is just part of the hobby. The reason for the human link rather than automatic registration is an attempt to stop all the spammers who seem to take great joy in bombarding this and other forums with bogus memberships. Your work email address unsurprisingly is registered as a company, therefore I couldn't check on you, just the company, the ISP came up the same way. Result, your registration was denied and the ISP banned along with several other ISP's which I knew to be bogus. I make a decision based on the information I have in front of me at the time, if I've caused you a problem then I apologise but I would still follow the same course. This site has been attacked several times yet because it does not have an automatic registration, it survived. That actually is an accusation! You've made two posts on here, neither of them have made you any friends. Rather than vent your angst on an open forum it would have been sensible to contact Tony direct.
|
|
|
Post by deegee on Jan 14, 2012 10:39:08 GMT
Southsix,
Many thanks for your explanation, which I am very grateful for and it has clarified things.
So, I have no qualms about offering a humble apology for my suspicions that I was being censored. However, when I received the e-mail at work to say my registration had been rejected, an explanation then of the reasons why would have helped, but maybe this isn't possible for some reason.
Next, as you will have read in my first post, I am not on here to offend or cause trouble. I am just very disappointed that some of the comments in the very first thread have made accusations of the entrants getting it wrong and being disqualified, when the full facts have not been known.
And then what's made matters worse is Tony agreeing with Noel, when he is fully aware that the scales in classes 48 and 49 were wrong in the entrance rules.
Quote 'please read the rules and descriptions to the competition as they have been written over a long period of time to get them right'.
Quote 'i stated at the beginning of the year that i am willing to help anyone prior to the show and get their models placed into the right class. but under no circumstances will i accept class changes on the day at SMW. this practise was strictly imposed this year and that is why we had models disqualified'
Therefore, I felt I had to come on here and address both Noel and Tony,s comments so other members could see why most (not all) of the civilian vehicles were disqualified.
In summary, I have just been trying to put the record straight, not upset anyone as I am really not that kind of person; I just like to see the truth and fairness prevail.
I will apologise again if any members feel I have 'upset the apple cart'.
I will finish with this message though, which I communicated to Tony in my e-mail just after SMW finished. Despite the errors with classes 48 and 49, I strongly feel the competition overall was extremely well arranged and a great success and must have been very hard work, so congratulations must also be given to Tony.
|
|
|
Post by tony on Jan 16, 2012 12:40:00 GMT
Deegee i have looked into the classes for the civilian vehicles and when you emailed me just after SMW i kept your email and was going to act on your findings once we know who the competition secretary will be after the AGM this year. you are absolutely spot on with the classes for civilian vehicles and i can only apologies for the discrepancy. it looks like this slipped through the net and i should have spotted it but failed too. i am in the process of getting these civilian vehicle classes right and by the time that the registration forms are sent out or published on the SMW web site we will have this problem sorted. Thank you for pointing out this to me.
Tony.
|
|
|
Post by NoelSmith on Jan 16, 2012 13:21:33 GMT
Hi Deegee It looks like I have opened a can of worms with this thread! I wish to take you to task about your analysis of my comments in my original first thread. They were OBSERVATIONS, NOT ACCUSATIONS. My comments were simply made on the basis of what I observed on the day after the competition had closed. i.e. My personal disappointment about seeing a number of what I considered very good models disqualified and marked up by the judges for being in the wrong class. So please can we get one thing straight. My original thread comments were simply meant to avoid modellers being disappointed as a result of entering their model in the wrong class. Hence my encouragement to scrutinise the rules thoroughly before entering. Regarding your thread comments that there was a problem with the wording of the table card descriptions for civilian vehicles class rules 48 and 49. If this was the case then the Comps Sec will have to look into this problem and ensure it does not happen again. I was unaware that there was any problem like this until I saw your threads. If this unfortunately led to models being disqualified inappropriately then I can only commiserate with the modellers concerned, particurly the Spanish Modeller you mentioned who must have gone to a lot of expense to get to the show. However, my first thread comments were made on the assumption that the rules were ok, so I make no apologies about the actual spirit in which they were meant. If indeed there was a problem on the tables at Telford, at least my thread has brought this out into the open, so pehaps that is not a bad thing after all, and may help avoid this problem from happening again. Maybe you ought to lobby the Comps Sec to allow you to re enter your model next year if indeed there was a mistake on the table markings.
|
|
|
Post by NoelSmith on Jan 16, 2012 14:13:48 GMT
Hi Tony, Ref my last post to Deegee about my original posting on this thread. My apologies. I should have mentioned in it, that your last posting was about it already being in hand to correct the discrepancy regarding civilian vehicles classes 48 and 49. Kind regards Noel
|
|
|
Post by deegee on Jan 17, 2012 19:28:38 GMT
Hi Noel, and Tony. Firstly, I have been contacted personaly by Tony and have responded. Secondly, in hindsight I probably, no definitely, should have been less forceful in my original first posting on this thread. Instead of the red mist coming down and 'barking' at everyone, I could have pointed out the class 48 and 49 discrepancies in a more friendly way. Something along the lines of 'look here, chaps, you have unfortunately got this a bit wrong etc etc. So, I apologise to all who I directed my wrath at; this is, after all, a quite noble hobby that we all must love or we wouldn't spend hundreds of hours fiddling with miniscule bits of car, ship, plane, tank etc. Respect.
|
|