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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2012 20:41:01 GMT
Deegee / Noel, may I suggest you both shake hands and we'll move on from there. A problem has now been outlined, Tony has responded and I see no further reason for drawing out this thread. If you both agree, I'd like to lock it.
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Post by NoelSmith on Jan 18, 2012 13:31:52 GMT
Hi Nick and Deegee I'm fine with that. At least it brought a problem out into the open that I was unaware of when I made my original post on this thread. Kind regards to you both. Noel
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Post by colinburgess on May 4, 2012 19:53:34 GMT
Here's my twopeneth. It's up to the entrant to have read the rules and then accessed where his model should be entered. However if this is his first Nationals, then there should be a qualified assistant to offer guidance. Having said that the persons taking entries should also be aware of the rules and look at the entry and if it is in the incorrect class as seen by the persons taking the entries, then advise the entrant.
After all it is (only) a competition, where every entrant must be catered for.If he/she is a bit doff then make a plan! It's not like the running of a nuclear power station. Having said that they way some of the committee/organising/security body strut around, I'm not so sure! The word has to be flexibility, it's a society for the member, by the members! So lets see it working that way.
I've been down at the bottom of Africa running IPMS for 32 years, each branch has it;s own rule which it applies for the Nationals and when it is hosting them. Two of us were tasked with writing a set of rule/classes/categories which we could use as a standard. It was trialled at one Nat's and seemed to have been universally accepted, Guess what after four years in the making it was thrown out at the last Nat's! The home team wanted to use their set of rules.... Pull your hair out. I ain't got any to pull out
Colin
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Post by Julien on Nov 6, 2012 16:38:17 GMT
As for me, I witnessed the judges unnnecesarily handling the bike models, so I'll not be entering anything in the foreseeable future. How do you know this was unneccesary? It was, how do I know? I was judging these. The standard in the bike class is always high and it is very hard to differentiate between the models. It was necessary to handle the models to see areas you dont normally see, undersides etc. Only by doing this were we able to see a couple of errors which in the end basically decided the class. Every year I see so much bitching and moaning about judging. Did I disqualify models as they were in the wrong class? yes. Did I try and move them to another class so they were still in? yes I did but was told no. Does that upset me as a modeller? yes! To be honest I have seen the same mistakes on entry for 3 years now, people just dont read the rules!! If you dont like the way the comp is judged then come be a judge, there are never enough and any member can help. Julien
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Post by thesheenemachine on Nov 6, 2012 22:19:43 GMT
Hello Julien,
Firstly, I'm not bitching - this is constructive criticism, which as an SMW judge I'd expect you to take on board. When doing what you were witnessed doing, you have responsibility for what may have taken hundreds of hours to complete and been very expensive to produce.
To answer your question - as a bike builder for over 10 years, (and I have been competition Secretary for my club and judged at shows and entered my bike and car models in competition) quite what you can glean from the underside of a bike model with it's cowling on I'm not sure - I guess..... the underside of the cowling, which is visible while it's on it's wheels. The fact that most 1/12th bike model's undersides sit around half an inch off the 'floor' means you can see what's going on.
One of the entrants even took the trouble to sit his model on a mirror base....!! It was still picked up.
Greasy thumb and forefingers leave a mark. You could at least of worn cotton gloves, as I do when handling my models. Bike models are difficult to handle at the best of times, many parts are easily damaged as are paint finishes,decals and photo etch additions and so forth. What I found even more disturbing was that while stood from my vantage point at the les Garagiste table, I did not witness any other judges picking up models in any other class to inspect the undersides, which in some classes you could perhaps see the need. Surely the aircraft classes are harder to judge?
Are SMW judges advised to handle models or is it a personal decision?
I have since gone through my photographs I took of you judging and still fail to believe what my eyes are seeing. In one shot you have your whole hand draped virtually over the entire length of the model....while its on it's wheels.??....another, you're looking at the side of one with it in your hands holding the front and rear wheels?? I know I would not handle my own models in the way your were... Many fellow bike builders (both UK and Foreign) that have seen the photos agree with my view on this.
So you see Julien, that's how I know it was unneccesary.
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Post by Julien on Nov 7, 2012 18:45:06 GMT
Well not sure if its me in these photos as there were 2 of us judging, how ever I considered it necessary to do, as far as I am aware its at our discretion to handle models. I always handle as though it were my own. I have seen models handled with gloves slip out so I certainly wont use them.
I know we made judgements on what we saw while handling the bikes which related to placing in the class. No models were harmed during this process.
If you want the models judged differently feel free to jump in and offer your time.
Due to other commitments I wont be doing it this year so there is an opening.
Julien
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