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Post by kitmonkey on Jun 25, 2009 17:42:43 GMT
Can any member help me out with a query concerning the colour scheme of the first Supermarine Spiteful prototype, serial NN660? I've found a couple of models on the internet - one camouflaged (wrong!) and the the other (on IPMS Stockholm's website - below) in an overall silver/duralumin scheme (not convinced). There's a photo of NN660 on page 494 of the Shacklady/Morgan book 'Spitfire The History' - the same shot also crops up when one Googles 'Spiteful' (see below) - that looks to me as though the aircraft was painted overall in a single colour (note the quality of the picture below is not as good as that in the book, and is taken from a slightly different angle). Why do I think this? On page 496 there's a photo of second prototype NN664 in what is clearly a natural metal finish (similar photos appear on the May 1997 edition of Air International and also the July 2001 aeroplane Monthly). NN660 appears to have been painted in a very carefully applied, uniform colour - possibly to an eggshell finish. It's darker than the Trainer Yellow outer ring of the fuselage roundel which I would suggest rules out Sky and similar colours. It's similar to the tone presented by Ocean Grey in Spitfire and Spiteful photgraphs on preceding and subsequent pages, although I think its probably closer to Medium Sea Grey. Could it be a shade of blue, perhaps (too light for PRU Blue, I'd say), or maybe Light Slate Grey? It also appears to have a black anti-glare panel in front of the windscreen. Can anyone help?
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Post by COLIN SHIPTON-KNIGHT on Jun 25, 2009 19:08:19 GMT
Kitmonkey,
Interesting name.....
An interesting subject, and an interesting question.......!
I have no definitive answer about NN660's paint scheme.... The first reference I can find is for NN664, which was hurriedly flown by Jeffrey Quill, and was unpainted.......(Jan 8 1945)
Will try and delve further for you.....
For what it is worth you are most welcome to all I have on the Spiteful. Quite happy to send CD.
Just email me at,
decalbank@googlemail.com
I will delve back into Jeffrey Quill's book to see if he makes any mention... of the beast's colour.
Gut feeling is, that it was painted with one of those 'one off' colours, like the Spitfire prototype, have no evidence for this I have to say, but just looking at the time, speed of conversion of a F XIV airframe by Supermarine, to start the process of researching the wing/airframe combination.......
Who knows, interesting question........
Colin
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rossm
Kit Basher
Posts: 88
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Post by rossm on Jun 26, 2009 7:49:09 GMT
Re NN660 - I posted my build on the web at www.hrmtech.com/SIG/articles/Spiteful_wings.asp and got some info from a gentleman who is excavating the crash site. I used Tamiya Light Grey XF66 based on the black and white picture in the first post judging the tone against the yellow of the roundel and thinking maybe grey primer. Here is what I got from the crash site investigator: ----quote--- I have the MoD licence to recover the Spiteful and would like to do what you have, although maybe 1/48th scale. Any help appreciated. The aircraft was very light blue grey (colour chips have survived well). my website is... www.airdefencecollection.co.uk----later email----- .by the way, confirmed that the colour of the aircraft was BS381c 627 (Light aircraft grey) ----unquote---- Ross
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Post by COLIN SHIPTON-KNIGHT on Jun 26, 2009 19:48:17 GMT
Ross,
Fascinating.....
Can easily believe it, paint readily available, it seems to fit with the photo's, and my suspicion would be covered in lacquer, or something similar, to give a highly polished/smooth surface.... early days in researching laminar flow....
Incredible to think that now 64 years later we are slowly unravelling the truth of these events......
Colin
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Post by kitmonkey on Jun 26, 2009 21:55:12 GMT
Thanks guys, fascinating replies which confirm my hunch about NN660 not being in natural metal/duralumin paint. Don't quite agree with the assumption that the prop spinner was finished in a lighter colour to the fuselage - looks the same tone to me. Intrigued by rossm's reply and his correspondent's statement that the 'aircraft was very light blue grey (colour chips have survived well)', adding that 'the colour of the aircraft was BS381c 627 (Light aircraft grey)'. I'd thought Light Aircraft Grey (LAG) was a post-WW2 colour. The closest wartime match to LAG I can think of is Sky Grey, but B+W photos of Rocs, Sea Gladiators, etc, indicate that the Trainer Yellow outer ring of fuselage roundels appears darker in tone than Sky Grey. Not the case with NN660. Medium Sea Grey (MSG) has a hint of blue in the right lighting conditions, and Trainer Yellow outer rings always appear lighter in tone against it in B+W photos I've seen as per NN660. So has rossm's correspondent mistaken MSG for LAG, perhaps? Could it simply be a typo, as MSG is BSC381C 637 (rather than the quoted 627)? How close to MSG is Tamiya Light Grey XF66, by the way? I've never used it. Near to Humbrol 64 and MSG, perhaps? Does look a little too blue on rossm's web photo of his model to be a MSG match. Thanks again for the feedback.
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rossm
Kit Basher
Posts: 88
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Post by rossm on Jun 27, 2009 17:33:02 GMT
Yes, I was suspicious of the LAG reference (could be too light as well as wrong era) but he's supposedly got the bits. I still like my Tamiya Light Grey, it's not as blue as the photo suggests and I just held it next to some Xtracolour MSG and it's close, however both are a touch darker than the paint chip in 'British Aviation Colours of WWII'. I wonder what the exact colour of Cerrux grey primer was ?
In my copy of Morgan & Shacklady it's easier to be convinced the spinner is a different colour to the airframe than to say it's the same but it could go either way. If they just took a prop off the production line would it have been Sky ?
I was also going to wonder if someone could visit the collection that is doing the excavating but I see the 'contact' page on their website is not functioning and none of his emails give a clue for its location.
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Post by ollieholmes on Jun 27, 2009 20:31:19 GMT
Who is it you communicate with about the parts? I know someone whos connected with the Boscombe Down collection and i might be able to see if he can help.
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Post by ollieholmes on Jun 27, 2009 22:13:08 GMT
Ive just been speeking to a person involved in the dig and they are not very forthcoming in infomation. I will let you know if i get anywhere.
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Post by kitmonkey on Jun 28, 2009 8:35:28 GMT
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Post by ollieholmes on Jun 28, 2009 18:18:41 GMT
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rossm
Kit Basher
Posts: 88
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Post by rossm on Jun 28, 2009 18:46:05 GMT
Very interesting - that appears to be a standard late Spit windscreen but I didn't interpret the photo in Morgan & Shacklady that way. I'd like to see the colours against some reference chips, not sure what to think from the photos.
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Post by ollieholmes on Jun 29, 2009 0:29:37 GMT
I can ask if he could do that for us but he is a ver busy man at the moment so it may take some time.
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rossm
Kit Basher
Posts: 88
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Post by rossm on Jun 30, 2009 6:59:52 GMT
There seem to be two shades of grey and I wonder which one is the top coat. I guess the best way to find out is to view the parts - do you know if the collection is open to the public ? Ross
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Post by ollieholmes on Jun 30, 2009 14:36:27 GMT
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Post by kitmonkey on Jul 3, 2009 15:54:30 GMT
Greeting chaps, just back from a week out of country and unable to access the forum, but worth the wait! Visited the linked thread and..... Very interesting - that appears to be a standard late Spit windscreen but I didn't interpret the photo in Morgan & Shacklady that way. I'd like to see the colours against some reference chips, not sure what to think from the photos. Yes it does look like a standard Spit windscreen, and you're right, NN660 did have a curved windscreen but it had a flat armoured panel inside - rather like the Seafire FR47. So the framework could be from NN660 but with the curved outer windscreen missing or just a regular windscreen. But the interesting thing for me is that the colours on the recovered wreckage look like Interior Green (so from something inside the aircraft and - I think I'm sure it is - Medium Sea Grey. Is this the exterior colour, I wonder?
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