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Post by COLIN SHIPTON-KNIGHT on Oct 7, 2007 19:51:41 GMT
Hello All! Visiting from Aviation land.............., and, only having basic historical knowledge of 'ships'...............................................! We/I have started a Photo RECCE SIG......but I have to admit it is mainly biased towards aircraft..........................So far! However as has been pointed out to me, other types of equipment was/are involved in RECCE, and they are quite correct. I have put a post on the armour forum ..............and folk's are coming up with possibility of RECCE models, within the ARMOUR world that they might want to display under the RECCE banner................................................. However when it come to ship's..I am a little more uncertain...... I put it to you folk's who are into Nautical things, is there scope for Nautical RECCE models........................................... I am in your hands! Is there such a beast! Is any one interested? Would love to hear any thoughts................. colinshipton-knight@blueyonder.co.uk Colin
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Post by sanguin on Oct 8, 2007 20:05:09 GMT
Classically (but not of the Greek variety) frigates were the 'eyes of the fleet' but any smallish ship available could be used to seek or observe.....Nowadays much of this is done by satellite (optical or radar of various sorts), undersea sensors or submarine. A 1/35th seascape with a small stick in the middle could be a class winner-'U Boat tails North Atlantic Convoy"..... John...
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jonb
Kit Basher
Posts: 137
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Post by jonb on Oct 9, 2007 10:59:17 GMT
Would Soviet use 'spy' trawlers count ? And I'm sure I read somewhere that midget submarines were used to land RN and RE frogmen onto beaches in France so they could collect sand sample to see if the beeches could support the weight of afv's etc - recceish ?
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Post by The Detail Police on Oct 9, 2007 12:13:58 GMT
It depends what you mean by reconnaissance. If you mean a ship whose mission is to go and find what's out there without fighting it, then most fast ships could be used for this. HMS Suffolk and Norfolk famously did this with the Bismark in 1941. If you mean purpose built ships then I would suggest that all survey ships loosely come into the category.
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Post by COLIN SHIPTON-KNIGHT on Oct 9, 2007 19:09:26 GMT
Oh God. I knew this would not be easy......
Some very valid points guys, I do not know where to draw the line....as let's face it plenty of aircraft that performed Recce, were also most capable of offensive action......But true Recce aircraft did not even contemplate 'tangling' with any one, armed or not. worst case was 'shoot the enemy in the face', with a view to helping you get back, and that was the worst case.........................
I must admit my personal preference would be "pure" reconnaissance, without offensive action intended or possible, but I know it's not quite that easy at times....
I have models that are plainly armed, however on the whole it is for defensive purposes....the main tasking being reconnaissance, lets face it if you don't get the info back, because you've got involved in a scrap, then the whole purpose of Recce is wasted.............
From that point of view, I like the idea of the Russian 'spy' trawlers, I feel a good example. Frigates, well yes they did Recce, but were also armed to the teeth and were regarded as part of a task force in conjunction with more heavily armed ships, Frigates are the most flexible of ships, that's why we have more Frigates than any other type of ship, (well until the government, sells or scraps a few more).
.......HMS Suffolk and Norfolk...well they were fast and capable ships, undoubtedly used for 'finding out things', but lets face it they were Cruisers, most able to defend themselves, and quite capable of offensive action.
The 'midgets' well yes I can see an argument for them.......
Oh dear, I hope this helps to 'muddy' the waters and explain where I am coming from....I do think some nautical models are appropriate, it's just where you draw the line, and more importantly, who wants to build them........
Colin
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Post by Julien on Oct 20, 2007 21:17:00 GMT
Colin,
I suspect mainly Subs but used more for intel gathering than atucal recce. I know there is rumors that the US has retrofitted some of its old Missiles subs for intel gathering.
There is the classic case of the Soviet Trawlers, also the US Navy did use converted tuna boats as sonar listening platforms to detect Russian subs but most of that is still classified.
Julien
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Post by COLIN SHIPTON-KNIGHT on Nov 7, 2007 20:02:11 GMT
Oh goodness I knew it would not be easy........
I like the idea of 'subs', they do Recce, I know that.
I like the idea of Russian Trawlers, thats Recce, I know that.
I like the idea of Frigates, they are the 'eyes' of the fleet, I know that.
Anyone interested in joining the Recce SIG, and more importantly, building models for display?
I have to admit, I am thinking about it, have already ordered Recce Armour model, will seriously look at Recce ships.......Any one interested? Come along and have a chat at SMW, table's 173/174 in hall 2, I would be most interested in opinions.
Colin
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Post by Rob Monfea on Jan 14, 2008 13:04:12 GMT
Hi Colin,
You could also consider C4ISR platforms such as the USS Blue Ridge/Mount Whitney. Strictly a Command ship, but also a distribution hub for reconnaisance data. Trumpeter do a kit of the Mount Whitney as well.
Cheers,
Rob M
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Post by iansadler on Jan 14, 2008 19:35:46 GMT
Hi in days of old when ships had sails it was the frigate that was the eyes of the fleet , but going further back , Any ship that was fast was put to this purpose , some sloops were also used and mail packets due to their speed were impressed when needed . The romans and greeks also used the fastest ships for this purpose , cheers ian
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Post by carrierman on Feb 11, 2008 17:28:19 GMT
Colin. Technically the Aircraft Carrier was originally intended to be a reconn or scouting ship for the big Battle Ship fleets. ie go look for the enemy fleet, land back on deck, tell the Admiral in his battle ship so he can lob 16 inch shells at them.
Sadly Billy Mitchel spoiled this by showing that you could not only spot them, but drop bombs on the enemy ships and sink them, the rest as they say is history.
Other than that, I would also vote for frigates as the Eye's of the fleet.
Cheers. Paul S Carrier SIG coordinator
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Post by spyderman on Apr 8, 2008 16:09:11 GMT
Depending on the time period, but relevant to most I suppose. WWII and onwards a favourite for recce would have to be the MTB, MGB or ML's. Depending on what was available in that theatre of operations at the time. Motor Torpedo Boats or Motor Gun Boats would have been the preferable choice if available due to their ability to defend themselves, otherwise Motor Launches or even Harbour Defence Motor Launches, HDML, would have been used. These were the fastest vessels on the water, but could also sneak up virtually unseen and unheard due to their low profile and single silent running engine (one silent and two high power engines). The almost unsung heroes of a lot of the naval theatres of war, especially in the Med and Indian ocean/Pacific ocean theatres.
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Post by foxy on Apr 14, 2008 18:40:47 GMT
Aircraft carriers were primely for taking a number of different types of aircraft to attack at long distance and in force,this included recce planes.. most bigger ships had Aircraft for spotting(recce).
The ships for this type of game(ie Recce) have already been mentioned.
Submarines were also used in this role to gain Information.
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