33 Wing Northern Command RAF - Information?

[John Tapsell]

I'm trying to find out a bit of info about 33 Wing during 1943. Specifically, who were they and what did they fly? They were based in the UK (HQ at York/Elvington possibly).

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
John

[MikeC]

Hi John,

It was definitely "Wing" was it? I've just had a quick Delve* into the "Source Book of the RAF" (Ken Delve) and for the RAF orbat for April 1943 there is a "33 Gp" listed as part of Balloon Command, with HQ at Sheffield. No more detail than that is given apart from the fact that they controlled "24 'Sqns'" (direct quote from the book). Could this be the unit you're interested in?


*please pardon the pun

[John Tapsell]

Mike,

Thanks for the response.

The direct transcript below comes from a report:

"Report By -
Group Capt. F. Donkin, R.A.F.
Comd. 33 Wing, R.A.F.
Northern Comd, York"

Donkin had undertaken a night sortie over Askham Fell near Penrith (flying a Mustang from Silloth) to report on possible air cooperation with CDL tanks on/around 27 Oct 1942 (the report I've seen is dated March 1943, but it could be a copy of an earlier report).

Whilst he could have been commanding a balloon Group/Wing, it doesn't seem to fit with what he was being asked to report on. I would have thought army cooperation or fighter/bomber type units would have been better qualified to assess the viability of a combined operation.

I suppose the other possibility is that Donkin had previous experience in those fields but was 'flying a desk' at the time he was asked to undertake the sortie/report.

Regards,
John

[MikeC]

Ah, very very probably not the same unit then. But of course, Army Co-operation very definitely comes within the scope of the Recce SIG and you have piqued my personal interest, particularly with the mention of the magic word "Mustang". So I'll carry on digging, if I find anything more useful I'll get back to you.

Cheers,

Mike

[peter104]

Mike, John,

According to the Air Britain book Royal Air Force Flying training and support units no.33 Wing was (re)formed on August 15th 1941 as No,33 (Army Co-operation) Wing for Army Yorkshire Command at YORK.
On June 1st 1943 it went to 12 Group Fighter Command and was disbanded on July 1st 1943.
The following units were part of this wing:
4 Sqn 8.41-3.43
13 Sqn 10.41-3.42
63 Sqn 7.42-11.42
169 Sqn 7.42-12.42 & 3.43
183 Sqn 1.43-3.43
231 Sqn 3.43-6.43
271 Sqn 8.41
613 Sqn 8.41-4.42 & 7.42-6.43
614 Sqn 2.42
654 Sqn 9.42-11.42
657 Sqn 1.43-3.43
659 Sqn 4.43-6.43
809 NAS (RN) 12.42-1.43
1472 Flt 6.42-6.43

Have not had time to look up the bases or equipment of these units during their time was 33 Wing.

Hope this helps,

Peter

[John Tapsell]

Peter,

That's a great start - thanks.

Regards,
John

[MikeC]

Thanks Peter, that's useful - with hindsight the geographical command name should have screamed "Army" at me. I've just had a quick sortie to my bookshelves, and RAF Squadrons (2nd Ed), Jefford, supplied the following information for the relvant periods you mention:

4 Sqn 8.41-3.43 (Clifton; Barford St John from 1/3/43; Lysander IIIA to 6/42; Tomahawk IIA 4/42-4/43, Mustang I 5/42-3/44)

13 Sqn 10.41-3.42 (See (1) below)

63 Sqn 7.42-11.42 (Catterick, then Weston Zoyland for a week, back to Catterick, Macmerry (with detachments) from 11/42; Mustang I)

169 Sqn 7.42-12.42 & 3.43 (Doncaster with various detachments; Also spent a week in 10/42 at Weston Zoyland (was there a school of something there?); to Clifton 11/42, Duxford 12/42, Barford St John then Gransden Lodge 3/43; Mustang IA)

183 Sqn 1.43-3.43 (From 1/3/43 Cranfield, Snailwell, Church Fenton, Colerne, spending about a week at each; Typhoon IB)

231 Sqn 3.43-6.43 (Clifon, detachment at Ballyhalbert; Mustang I)

271 Sqn 8.41 (Doncaster – see (2) below)

613 Sqn 8.41-4.42 & 7.42-6.43 (Doncaster with detachments, Twinwood Farm from 4/42, Ouston with detachments from 8/42; Wing from 3/43, then Bottisham, Ringway, Wellingore in fairly short order; Clifton from5/43, Portreath from 6/43; Tomahawk II to 4/42, then Mustang I)

614 Sqn 2.42 (Macmerry with detachments; Blenheim IV)

654 Sqn 9.42-11.42 (Firbeck, Bottisham from 11/42; Tiger Moth, then Taylorcraft Plus C2)

657 Sqn 1.43-3.43 (Ouston; Auster I)

659 Sqn 4.43-6.43 (Firbeck; Auster III)

809 NAS (RN) 12.42-1.43 (No information in Jefford’s book “RAF Squadrons”)

1472 Flt 6.42-6.43 (No info)

(1) According to Jefford, flying Blenheim Vs in the Med (Egypt area)
(2) Transport unit flying a motley collection of types eg Harrow, DH Albatross

A lot of movement there in some cases, which reflects the state of flux Army Co-operation Command seemed to exist in.

Hope this is useful too

[peter104]

Michael,

re 13 Sqn According to the same book (RAF Squadrons) but 1st edition, they flew Blenheim IV's from Odiham (+ various dets) from Jul 41 to sep 42. They moved only in nov 42 to North Africa.
809 NAS (Doncaster, than Clifton Park from dec 28th, 1942; Fulmar II) (from The squadrons of the Fleet Air Arm, Ray Sturtivant)
1472 Flt formed 15.6.42 as no 1472 (Anti-Aircraft Cooperation) Flight at DISHFORTH with 3 Tomahawk and 3 Battle for air cooperation with the GHQ Home Forces Battle School, Barnard Castle. 16.1.43 CATTERICK, where Hurricanes replaced Battles and later Tomahawks; Disbanded 15.11.43 (from Royal Air Force Flying Training and Support units).

Kind regards,

Peter

[edgar]

I realise that getting there might not be easy, but there are Operations Record Books, in the National Archives, Kew, under the references AIR26/45 (1941-43,) AIR26/46 (1944-45,) with appendices under AIR26/47.
Edgar

[John Tapsell]

Hi Edgar,

I was down at TNA in July, hunting for information on a similar set of trials carried out by 74 OTU in Palestine in March/April 1943.

I know that W/Cmdr Porteous wrote a report on the outcome of the trials and that he submitted a copy to the CDL battalion involved (11 RTR). However, the 74 OTU Ops Record makes no mention of any trials in this period and whilst the 11 RTR War Diary refers to the report as an appendix, the document is not included in the record file - frustrating!

However, next time I'm down there I'll do some more hunting.

Regards,
John