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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 2:20:33 GMT
The thread elsewhere about judging models has given me the excuse to air something that has grumbled away inside me for a few years. In fact, since before the 'Nationals' used the terms Gold Silver and Bronze. I once entered a diorama in the main competition, but was beaten by a model of a remarkably similar topic. Now don't get me wrong, I have no complaints about the judging: the build quality of the winning entry was absolutely superb, and there is no doubt that it deserved First. I don't remember anything about the Second or Third winners, but I got a "condemned". (Did I spell that right?) The concept of my model was my own idea. I chose the main subject kit, two separate figures, a kit of a building arranged to my liking, and accessories, placing them on a home-made base with scratch-built scenery. It was an action scene which 'told a story'. The modeller who won First, simply bought a single kit and built it from the box. By its nature it was a diorama of pre-determined shape. The nagging thought is the format of the competition: three of us were beaten within the rules by a skilful modeller, but all the ingenuity and thought and work that went into creating the scenes counted for nothing. We 'manufactured' our models; he followed a set of instructions. I realise that the diorama categories are too small to be subdivided, so the problem will always remain. The Commendation was some sort of recognition, and I suppose the judge thought the quality simply wasn't good enough. So I've answered my own comment, in public. I feel better now. If anyone has been harbouring similar thoughts, you're not alone.
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Post by iansadler on Oct 25, 2013 18:31:36 GMT
Having judged at all levels , club , shows and some international but not our nationals for BMSS, MAFVA , and IPMS. It is down to the judge what he or she thinks is correct for the build ,after all it is subjective and based on years of modeling and experience . I won at national level in one case class winner for MAFVA and a week later at a club model show I was not even placed . I think you are wrong nobody ever has condemned , it should be commended. cheers ian
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Post by NoelSmith on Oct 26, 2013 17:15:49 GMT
Malc I think it is fair to say that we have all experienced this at some time or other. Ian's thread is a prime example. I placed a scratchbuilt that won it's class at SMW last year in the competition at my club's own annual show this year. It was beaten for best of show on the day by a model that was built largely from a kit, that to be fair was a very good model in its own right. If you enter comps it's just the name of the game. You win a few! You lose a few! Regardless of a judges opinion...and that is just all it is, your model is there for all to see on the table, and it is actually really judged all day by your peers, when they look at it. I never lose any sleep over judges opinions.....best left to miffed pot hunters when they lose! It's just a hobby after all!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2013 0:39:00 GMT
My deliberate mis-spelling of "commended" was supposed to be a joke, and I thought I made it abundantly clear that I had no complaints whatsoever about the judging. My point was the unfortunate (and probably unavoidable) problem that when a category is too small to be separated into Standard Kit, Detailed, Converted, Scratchbuilt, etc, certain skills are overlooked. Those subdivisions were introduced long ago for that very reason, but are only feasible when the classes are well populated, which the Dioramas are not. The vast majority of Standard Kits are produced by large commercial concerns, whose researchers have photographed a full-size prototype from every possible angle and taken accurate measurements. After a protracted development period, extremely expensive moulds churn out models which ought to be near-perfect. Scratchbuilt displays are often produced from a single fuzzy black/white photo, by a guy with a craft knife and a square of plywood balanced on his knees. (Or am I the only one?) They shouldn't be in the same category, but sometimes there is no option. That is the problem. I was not making a complaint, and I do not expect a solution.
Ian's experience at a club show reminded me of the true story of a celebrity who turned up at a venue where, by coincidence, they were holding a look-alike contest with him as the subject. He entered anonymously, and came third.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2013 13:53:13 GMT
Malcolm, Diorama classes 80 - 86: Competition Classes take your pick. The classes are provided it's up to the modeller what they put into it, how many sub divisions would you like?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2013 17:38:58 GMT
Nick, you know from your 'Beyond the Box' experience that mixing and converting kits, and adding scratchbuilding and scenery, makes for a totally different kind of model from a Standard Kit, and requires a different set of mental skills: concept, arrangement, design, presentation. These sometimes override the physical abilities of actual building, although competitions always demand a high standard of quality. My moan (and that's all it is) is that dioramas aren't popular enough to make subdivision practical. Some modellers spend a whole year between SMWs just building one kit. They often invest time and money in detailed research, and many have personal experience of their subject (eg, servicemen often replicate equipment and vehicles from their career). The result is the excellent standard of single-kit displays on the competition tables. Dioramas require longer and different processes, sometimes greater expense, and a bigger shelf. I would love to see a surge in interest, but it isn't there. An entire category may only have three competitors: if you subdivide that, you might have to award three Golds, or worse, no recognition at all. If anyone has a suggestion for a solution, let's hear it. The only one I can think of is to remove diorama-type standard kits from the diorama category, but make sure the rules allow a place for them in an SK class somewhere else.
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Post by davidoflondon on Nov 4, 2013 14:14:25 GMT
I will start by saying I'm in no way really qualified to reply Well except in as far as I like others have an opinion. I've recently rediscovered this hobby having not made kits since I was a teenager and I've only been making them now for about a year. I personally hope my models are improving but they're pretty much all OOB and I've never been willing to enter any in a competition. So my background explained on to topic. I agree with Madmaic's comment that scratch build is a different skill from an OOB or OOB plus after market (which is as far as I've gone!!). But then that's the problem its a "different skill" which is to say, that each requires skill. If you're making a diorama then visualising the "story" you want is a skill. But then so is getting a good camoflague pattern on a tank. So as a judge how should I rate a "story" vs. "camoflague" for example. Obviously part of this can be addressed by subdividing categories but without enough entries that can become silly "And the winner in the OOB Spitfire Mk VB 1942 Desert Camoflague 1/72 category is ..." An approach would be to specify some scale eg each model gets rated out of 10 for "story", painting, build etc. Where an OOB build would perforce get a low score for story. The trouble with that answer is that I believe model making is to a certain externt an art form. We, the modellers, should put love and care into our models, if we do so that should show in the finished product. I'm not sure an empirical judging scheme is the best way of recognising that. So in a long winded fashion I think its just go to be down to individual judge's opinion. One might value the story highly and judge accordingly, whereas the next might be more interested in accuracy, or colour schemes or whatever. Whatever they feel I think the modeller shouldn't worry too much, it is after all only an opinion. Personally I'll be happy when I feel my models are worthy enough to be placed alongside some of the superb work I've seen at shows.
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