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Post by hazmod on Dec 1, 2013 12:43:00 GMT
Luis Gil Gimeno who won his gold winner for his Nissan Calsonic Impul Z to Class 47, Civil Vehicles 1/29 up to includling 1/21 Scale SK on Scale Model World 2011. He was breached SMW Regulation over die cast panel with his Nissan Impul Z. He never told Competition Secretary Judges were blind eye for his Nissan Impul Z with Gold winner Should be die cast not allowed fitted model car on SMW regulations Luis has fitted die cast floor panel with his Nissan Impul Z and should be enter to Class 48 (ASD ASC) with metal piece What Judges always looked this model Noel Smith do n't knowledge about Nissan Impul Z with alleged die cast panel fit. Luis should stripped his gold winner or disqualified the result, because alleged die cast panel fitted under his Nissan Impul Z See Civil Vehicles judges be awareness threads on here. Bad Iron wolf covered sheep's cloth
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 15:32:20 GMT
May I suggest you contact Tony Horton!
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Post by John Tapsell on Dec 1, 2013 16:11:22 GMT
I would suggest that two years after the event (SMW 2011) is two years too late to resolve any perceived issue with an individual competition entry.
Regards, John
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Post by hazmod on Dec 2, 2013 5:44:40 GMT
Luis Gil Gemino still no deserved his result at SMW 2011 What is Noel Smith has suggested his Civilian Vehicles Judges be awareness threads on early 2011, and what is this bother with rules
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Post by NoelSmith on Dec 2, 2013 14:40:19 GMT
Hazmod. Although they are acknowledged modellers in their field, it is unrealistic to expect judges to know the contents of every kit produced when they are judging. John Tapsell rightly says that there is not much you can do about it 2 years on. It is a very serious accusation to name a competitor as a cheat on this forum, as he may have inadvertantly entered the model without realising that die cast parts although part of the kit were not allowed. I think that we need to give that person the benefit of the doubt in this instance. There is a complaints procedure that in the rules quite plainly states that anybody who suspects that a model is ineligible, should bring their suspicions to the competitions secretary's attention on the day BEFORE judging starts. I noticed that my name has featured in both your last posts, so can I reply on both counts? With regard to your first post, why have I been linked with this Nissan model regarding knowledge or lack of about the die cast panel(s)? I have not judged at SMW for about 4 years, so had nothing to do with judging that particular model anyway. Even if I had, I would refer you to the first line of this post about judges in general to get some perspective on this issue. Regarding your second post, my civilian judges awareness thread was with regard to people who might go and buy ready made die cast models and enter them into competitions as their own build. The rules as they stand are clear about die cast parts in models. Maybe it is time that they were looked at as they are becoming integrated more and more into mainstream kits. Recently I looked into the box of a large scale Revell Ducati motor cycle kit and the chassis was of die cast metal. Essentially the rest of the kit was a typical plastic offering. As the society is looking to be perceived more as scale modelling as opposed to plastic modelling, perhaps the rules should be looked at with a view to metals and wood being used in a more structural rather than cosmetic way. As long as the models are STATIC fine scale models I personally cannot see there being a problem with materials other than plastic being used. Any rule changes would have to be made at committee level with the majority consent of members however.
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Post by John Tapsell on Dec 2, 2013 21:25:28 GMT
Noel (and fastcat),
Die-cast chassis/hulls have also been making an appearance in AFV kits in the past few years - several of Tamiya's 1/48 scale tanks have die-cast lower hulls as does their 1/35 scale 4x4 'Light Armoured Vehicle' (don't understand why, as the metal hulls are generally less well defined than their plastic equivalents). Armour judges have generally taken a pragmatic view on the issue and judged those models (if they are entered) along with everything else. It boils down to knowing the kits and knowing what's supplied in them (and what significance those parts have in the overall scheme of things).
It also raises a more fundamental point. The competition rules need to be applicable across all the categories - we don't want a situation where there are separate rules for cars, for tanks, for aircraft and so on.
The rules do need to keep abreast of what is appearing in the kits we are buying - we just need to be careful that we don't solve a problem in one category and inadvertently create a new one in one of the others.
Regards, John
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Post by fastcat on Dec 2, 2013 23:43:58 GMT
Hello John and Noel, Thanks for your input and comments. Your comment that judges have generally taken a pragmatic view pretty much sums up the problem however. As you say, it needs a knowledge of what's in the kits and the impact on the final model. I don't think any judge or Competition Secretary for that matter can be reasonably expected to know the make-up of every kit they encounter. I hope relaxing the rules would also prevent problems of the sort Nick has highlighted.
I realise the problem of diversifying the rules between categories but unfortunately that's the nature of the problem. Few kits have such diverse methods of manufacture as civilian vehicles. MFH whose output of car kits is higher than any of the major plastic kit manufacturers change their methods from model to model. This years Class 48 and Category Winner was from an MFH kit. And who can work out the proportion of one medium to another?
That's not a feature of many aircraft kits as yet (the majority interest of IPMS) although it could change of course. With the exception of wooden models, I don't think it applies to ships either. I can't speak for AFVs or Sci-Fi as I'm not conversant with current trends in that area.
Unfortunately there are already separate rules for different categories. Class 46 (Civilian vehicles, 1/30th and under) allows all metal models, as do classes 54 to 61 and 73 and 74(Figures). By default, I think this should also be read across to the Junior Classes 89 and 90 and even the Diorama Categories 82 and 83, although it doesn't at the moment. The rules were altered to reflect the market of the day and to encourage a more diverse entry as well as trying to be more inclusive.
My original proposal is only aimed at the Civilian Vehicle Category because that's where I perceive the most difficulties lie and it's what I know best. For that reason I'd rather leave it as it is. I've not had a response from Tony yet which is why I haven't aired the proposal on this forum. I appreciate your concerns regarding being all-inclusive. If other members echo your concerns, could they not draft an amendment at the AGM? I don't want to create problems elsewhere and that would let the rest of the membership air their views.
Many thanks Dave
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Post by hazmod on Dec 3, 2013 4:50:10 GMT
Come to Iron Wolf strike again Noel I know iron wolf hide model cars for competition. I have views SMW Rules and Definitions regulation, Die Cast not appeared to included definition details. If Luis has alleged it, because all die cast bodywork and under body cover. He do n't say his description details with his Nissan Impul Z. What is Judges has bother it I always guilty it, I have enter my three F-1 cars (1990's) at SMW competition on 2002,2003, and 2007, and This is racing F-1 cars has fitted all die cast suspensions. What is I do n't saying it. I'm hand up If I not allowed enter to my Nissan Impul Z at future SMW competition, because It will fitted die cast floor panel appeared, and I will ensured competition secretary. I know, all die cast bodyworks do n't allowed to enter to SMW Competition If Competitor who buy his Model Hiro Factory, with model car, with high cost, and take this Hobby Link Japan trophy, and He has thrown his monies in drain down , Crazy Japanese Modellers who brought more MHF cars for Scale Model Shows in Japan. IPMS Japan competition secretary will welcome to competitor enter his MHF car at competition, Sigh! If I will enter to my future Impul Z at SMW competition, and I will write description card with "Die cast panel with box from factory", Competition Secretary or stewards will checked description details with card. Competitor whoever enter to his Tamiya, 1/12 Scale, Catherham Super 7 car at IPMS Nationals championship annual until SMW 2000, It was Alum metal body works with box from factory. I has see Hobby search online with details from Japan. It was all Alum metal panels. I hope, Competitor will not allowed his die cast model cars or Motor cycle for SMW Competition, because Hand built models still banned Red card for Hand built finished model cars or Motorcycle. Noel, I know Protar 1/9, scale,all plastic Motorcycles has fitted with die cast frames. Revell and Italeri has brought moulded casts materials share. Italeri will re released this 1/6 Moto Guzzi bike on soon. I think Die cast frames around this box. Watch, Iron Wolf come!
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Post by NoelSmith on Dec 3, 2013 16:18:15 GMT
Judging by what John has said about die cast parts starting to appear in AFV kits, this seems to be a bit of a trend amongst kit manufacturers and we will probably see more of it across the classes. If kits, conversions and scratch builts have plastic, resin, photo etched, die cast metal, white metal or wood as part of their structure....So what? As long as we are encouraging the building of static (and I emphasise static) fine scale models, does it really matter what they are made of? Any material being used used is just a means to an end as far as I can see. John has pointed out in another thread that the society is technically not the International Plastic Modellers Society UK any more but officially now is IPMS UK The Society For Scale Modellers. Maybe it is about time our rules were changed to reflect this across all classes and not be hide bound just to plastic as the main structural material in our models. Fastcat's proposal is a start but is limited to certain classes. My proposal would be that any materials could be used in the construction of models that must be static scale models only.
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Post by hazmod on Dec 3, 2013 17:31:16 GMT
Crazy Japanese modellers who enter to Tamiya, JGTC cars with diecast panels, to Japan Scale model Nationals Championship Annual. I do n't think it, Japan Competition Secretary still allowed competitors enter to his model Japan GT cars with fitted die cast panels for competition. Bad things for Tamiya. I will see and wait
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Post by hazmod on Dec 4, 2013 19:18:35 GMT
You will situation this alloys chassis from Model Hiro Factory on 1999. I still put this MHF kit on shelf until Fujumi P34/77 kit on further. I show this three picture images about Alloys Metal Chassis. Why MHF has very bold and more refinements with metals pieces on late 1990's I have secret my project P34/77 on further. I has informed SMW Competition Secretary on last Summer, and I has take my evidence image for him with E-mail picture. I see and wait. Model Hiro Factory has fixed increased up the expensive price on now, because High prices for metals in Asia 1990's It was price tag about £100.00 to £120.00 around. Today, It has price tag £250.00 to £300.00 Watch! Iron Wolf will come
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Post by hazmod on Dec 7, 2013 6:55:08 GMT
Noel, You looked this Model Hiro Factory alloys metal chassis with this Tyrrell P34/77 on last post I can make build this hybrid static model car on future, and I still waiting buy this Fujumi Tyrrell P34/77 on further I still special modeler with IPMS, with model engineer project Let team can make building the bridge and new begin for IPMS
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2013 9:50:32 GMT
May I make a suggestion, there are now three threads devoted to this plastic / metal components argument. Tony and others have already started to draft a resolution to amend the judging criteria so why do we need several threads on the same subject?
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Post by hazmod on Dec 7, 2013 9:50:36 GMT
What is Luis Gil Gemino do n't know about IPMS UK SMW Rules, He was Foregin from IPMS Overseas. IPMS European has had different Nationals competition rules, with IPMS Overseas. He still deserved his results with SMW 2011.
Foregin modellers still do n't know SMW Regulations.
You will understand it, IPMS World still recongized this title on since 1960's IPMS UK still recongized on 50 years
Let begin, IPMS Members will make building this bridge with Model Engineers and special modellers for team modelling
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Post by hazmod on Dec 7, 2013 19:57:08 GMT
I will looked forward SMW Competition re forms on further, and I'm back for Fastcat's montions with new civilian Vehicles competition rules re forms. I hope it.
Last time, Fastcat and me has situation this MFH Lotus with superdetail on competition.
Should be fair with mixed materials with kits for competition on further
I will see and wait
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