Skyraiders with camera pod

[reccephreak]

Just found this photo, pretty interesting I thought:

images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=1952+tactical+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3D1952%2Btactical%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den&imgurl=a7931580cd45f10c

[COLIN SHIPTON-KNIGHT]

Larry,

The link seems not to work....

Colin

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2010 11:31:02 GMT COLIN SHIPTON-KNIGHT said:

Larry,

The link seems not to work....

Colin

Colin, copy the complete link and paste it into your search engine, it works, or, click on this link images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=1952+tactical+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3D1952%2Btactical%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den&imgurl=a7931580cd45f10c

[reccephreak]

Thanks for "fixing" my link.
I think it would make a good build up, with the wings folded like that. I wonder what they used for the camera pod, a converted fuel tank?
Larry

[COLIN SHIPTON-KNIGHT]

Larry,

Fascinating...

What the hell is it..?

'Strike camera'...?

Would like to see the same on USAF aircraft.

Colin

[sanguin]

By pure chance I am reading 'To The Last Round, The Epic British Stand On The Imjin River Korea 1951' by Andrew Salmon. In April '51 (page 126) there is a passing reference to a patrol across the Imjin by The Glosters. This was preceded by them "watching American aircraft dive bombing hills over the river. Days later B Company were informed that the aircraft had been doing photographic reconnaissance under cover of the attacks and the photographs showed an entrenched hill." There is no specific reference given for this statement, but it probably comes from one of the surviving Glosters interviewed at length for the book.
Now I don't know if April '51 could fit with the picture shown in the first posting, but bombs and a camera pod on Skyraiders may well be what this refers to....just a suggestion in ignorance, but it may give you an avenue to explore.
John

[sanguin]

After a poke around on the internet, the Skyraiders are from VF-54, the Corsair VF-53 and the Panthers VF-172, all aboard the USS Essex between 26/6/51 and 25/3/52 as part of CVG-5.
VF-54 and VF-53 tailcodes S, VF-172 tailcode R.

So the photo Skyraiders from VF-54 were possibly not around in April '51, although I haven't yet been able to find when VF-54 switched from their F4Us to AD2s and yet still kept the 'F' squadron designation. They had F4Us in late 1950, but were using the AD2/4 by June 51.

Some VF-54 Skyraiders, unfortunately not carrying camera pods, look for the 'S' tail code:
www.abledogs.com/gallery/gallery3.htm
www.abledogs.com/gallery/gallery7.htm
www.abledogs.com/gallery/gallery19.htm

John

[reccephreak]

Colin,

It's either a pod for a strike camera, or it's even big enough to put a decent sized recon camera in it. Researching which type it is would prove VERY HARD, as usual.

John,

Thanks for the info on the Skyraiders reported doing recon missions at the same time they did strikes. Also a special thanks for the research on VF-54. It looks like some of their birds had some kind of checkerboard markings on the wingtips?

This is now definitely on my list of FUTURE projects.

Cheers,
Larry

[sanguin]

After a bit more digging around, I suspect that the Skyraider cameras from VF-54 may be aimed more at strike assessment than pure photorecce.
This link:
/docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:kXtoTZTP0uYJ:www.history.navy.mil/a-korea/cvg5-51.pdf+'USN+VF-54'&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjl-WiQKFL5UfM

is a report on the activity of CV-5 on the Essex in August '51.
There were 92 documented photorecce sorties in that time (it's on almost the last page....) but all were performed by a three aircraft detachment F9F-2Ps from VC-61.
None are documented at that time from VF-54. Sorry. Please can someone find something to the contrary elsewhere!
Mind you, it's a fascinating read just to get some idea of what went on (and wrong) from the air side while running carrier operations in 1951.
John

[COLIN SHIPTON-KNIGHT]

Dear All,

After having done some research, I can say it might, or might not, be a strike camera.....

A couple of quotes I found,

"Some Spads were modified with an electrically operated KB-18A 70mm strike
camera, which was mounted in the underside of the left wing, inboard
of the wheel well. The camera operated automatically when
stores were released, providing panoramic images for battle damage
assessment. This was accomplished by a rotating prism that
scanned 180 degrees fore and aft and 40 degrees laterally during
each photograph. Strike cameras were seldom used, and some pilots
agree that they were effective only if they flew straight off the target.....not a widely held good idea..."

"The only cameras used by the 1" ACS were wing-mounted
versions for photographing other aircraft on strike missions, a task
that was not popular with Spad pilots. It has been said that President
Johnson had a voracious appetite for combat footage. Tom
Dwelle, who flew Spads with the 1" and 602'" ACS, recalls that
during mid-1965 he flew 15 missions with a 5OO-pound napalm
can modified with cameras. Built into the canister were a 35mm
rapid-sequence, still camera with color film, and a forward and backward-
looking 16mm movie camera. Both cameras were activated
by releasing external stores or by the pilot's rocket-firing button.
The images were widely distributed throughout the press during the period"

Having said that, I found a photo of a strike camera on a VNAF Skyraider, and it does not look like that photo.. It has the same front end, but is not rounded but tube shaped with what looks like another camera at the rear end....

Unfortunately not able at this time to post the picture here!

The plot thickens......!

But during my research, I did find yet another 'pod' that the Skyraider carried, and I wonder about it's purpose....?



Colin

PS, Larry remind me at, [e-mail] about what you want me to send you. Do you want all my Skyraider findings as well?

Still looking for Skyraider carrying 'Igloo White'....

[reccephreak]

Well the pod in that photo definitely was NOT designed to carry a KB-18 strike camera. Here's a pic of one:
www.surplusshed.com/images/items/I1433_1.jpg
And it's on sale for only $275.00!!
What a deal!?!
Larry

[sanguin]

Er, it looks as if my USS Essex CV-5 report link above doesn't link, so this is the equivalent PDF link:
www.history.navy.mil/a-korea/cvg5-51.pdf
The previous one was an HTML link....
The original picture that started this was from January 1952; the SPAD quotes that Colin found are from the mid 60s and I don't know how relevant the cameras bit is to that image. However the ThunderJug version he illustrates is obviously an attempt to at least try out a downward ejection seat in the absence of anything better. I wonder what note it whistled as it plummeted towards some bemused VC....a bum one, perhaps?
John