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Post by neilscrim on Nov 19, 2007 18:38:59 GMT
I've got a 1:35 Dragon Sherman Firelfy Vc kit (6031) which is their early attempt that has some errors. I can deal with most of the faults but the real problem is the upswept return rollers. I know AFV (or Academy) do a flat/parallel return roller suspsension pack but it would be more cost effective for me to buy a Dragon M4A3 Battle of the Bulge, use the spare suspension set in that and also get an M4A3 out of it in the process. However, I don't need an M4A3, or at least not in the near future anyway so... Does anyone know of a conversion set for flat/parallel roller arms? or... Has anyone found an easy way to modify the kits parts? or..... Does anyone have a spare set of Dragon suspension units with flat/parallel arm return rollers that I can trade with. As I said before, I think the Dragon M4A3 Battle of the Bulge uses the upswept suspension but also comes with a spare set of flat/parallel suspension units.
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Post by foxy on Nov 29, 2007 13:15:14 GMT
High Neil. I have a spare Academy set of suspension and wheels from the M3 Grant kit, they have the skid type top(separate) and only a small Wheel on the rear, the wheels are the solid type with raised strong struts around, not shure if this is what your looking for.
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Post by neilscrim on Nov 29, 2007 18:05:19 GMT
Thanks for the reply Foxy. Not sure if the M3 units will match, there's a pic (from the Perth Modelling site, great place!), the left hand pic after boxart showing what I've got on the left hand side and what i want on the right: www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/dragon/dr6255.htmI'll have to do some checking but I think the M3 suspension will be a different design. Does your suspension match the right hand side?
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Post by foxy on Nov 30, 2007 8:36:30 GMT
Hmmm, Had a look, did not know there were so many differences in the Sherman, Have two to make and have only just started swating up on them. Had a look at Perth site, and they look simm, the overhang of the right side on my M3 version looks the same as your picture, 'but', there are no centre piece's you have showing between the suspention arms, wheels are solid type on this fret. 'So', sorry it does not match. Your right on the Perth site, nice
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Post by neilscrim on Nov 30, 2007 10:14:19 GMT
I thought the M3 might have an earlier style of suspension... ah well... But the place to go to find this kind of stuff out is certainly the Perth site, there's a mass of reviews and info on tap. Until I started looking into Shermans to get my head round all the versions I didn't know there were so many differences either! It's mind boggling....
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Post by John Tapsell on Nov 30, 2007 18:33:56 GMT
Neil/Foxy,
Shermans are a nightmare of different versions and components.
One of the reasons for this is that unlike most tanks, the different versions of the Sherman were not sequential - several of them were in production at the same time (the different designations were as much about which factory was building them and which engines were fitted rather than which came after the other).
I think the first version into production was the M4A2, followed by the M4A1 and then the M4 (only by a month or so).
There are several different transmission housings, different suspension units, mantlets, wheels etc. It makes it very difficult to pin down a 'typical' vehicle.
A good example: The British used a varied range of M4A2 (Sherman III) in NW Europe in '44-'45 - You can see early, mid and late production versions in the same regiment, with the early versions actually being as 'new' as the late versions (shipped to the UK and kept in storage for more than a year before being issued 'as new' to regiments re-equipping for D-Day in feb/march 44)
Photos exist of M4A2s with early (M3 Grant) bogie units being prepared for the invasion, whilst other tanks in the same Squadron had later trailing-idler styles of bogie. Ditto for a mix of narrow and wide gun mantlets, three-piece and cast transmission housings and so on.
Having said that, the M4A4 (Sherman V) was probably the most consistent of the models, so the variations were less extreme - I think it was the only model 'exclusive' to a single manufacturer.
These 'extra' parts can be found in other Dragon Shermans as well - the M4A1 kit had two versions of the suspension bogies ('flat' and 'upswept', as does their M4A2 Red Army (no. 6188)
Cheers, John
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Post by neilscrim on Nov 30, 2007 19:14:27 GMT
Aha! Seek and ye shall find... How I missed this the first time of looking I'll never know: www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/formations/f025.htmReplacement straight arm return rollers by Formations, designed for the tamiya kits. John, did any Vc exist with upswept return rollers, ie the dragon kit (6031) as is? Obviously I've got to shorten the lower hull but that's not a problem. Since giving up hope of finding such items (and no-one on the forum had a spare set of suspension units) I looked into modifying the existing units. It seems I might be able to get away with a decent approximation of a straight return arm using a file and plasticard or, in other words, a bit of good old fashioned modelling Now if only some kind company out there would produce an M4A2 and M4A4 in 48th scale, I could start my project of British shermans to go with the Bison 48th decals I have. And before you ask, I could do it in 35th scale but it would cost me a fortune
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Post by foxy on Nov 30, 2007 20:03:29 GMT
Neil mate, I could send the M3 bits to you, as they do fit the small wheel effect on the right top part of the unit of your picture, it was only the springs in the picture that I did not have.
If you want them your welcome to them lol.
Just give me a call and I will send, no charge.
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Post by John Tapsell on Nov 30, 2007 21:19:08 GMT
Neil,
I haven't seen any with the upswept roller brackets, but you need to be a bit careful.
Flat trailing idler brackets came in 'unpacked' or 'packed' versions.
The 'flat' brackets were introduced early on but the the return rollers sat slightly low. Therefore, small fillets were added to the axle mounts to raise the return roller up (the upswept rollers did the same thing in a different way and came later). A lot of the Sherman Vs I've photos of seem to have the 'packed' version, so this would seem a better option (where Shermans are concerned - never say never!).
The link you provided to the the PMMS site shows the 'packed' variation - where the return roller axle fits is raised slightly and there is another, similar fitting, moulded directly to the end of the arm below it (if that makes sense). Whether you use these Dragon parts or something else, you need to check that they have the packing.
Just out of interest - have you decided on the markings yet?
Cheers, John
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Post by neilscrim on Dec 1, 2007 8:52:47 GMT
Hi Guys,
Foxy first:
Yes I'm interested in the bits but before you fork out on postage it would be best to make sure what you've got is what i want otherwise it's your money wasted, and that would make me feel guilty. PM me your email address and I'll send you a pic just to confirm we're talking about the right part. Also, there is the issue of the 'packing' (see below) but that's of lesser importance.
John:
Yeah, I'm well aware of packed and unpacked rollers (yet another subtle difference in the sherman story!) but I can fiddle with that when the time comes. The major difference (lookwise at least) is the unswept/swept arm. I'm definitely one of the "if it looks right it is right" clan and if worse comes to the worse I can clog the roller up with mud.
Markings? The kit comes with Northants Yeomanry markings and as I live in Northants it would be the natural option but I'm not really bothered, it's that bl**dy great big barrel that makes it for me. If you're interested in the kit markings I can live without them.
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Post by John Tapsell on Dec 1, 2007 17:34:32 GMT
Neil,
I was just curious about the markings - I'd do mine in Staffs Yeo markings for the same reasons you'd choose a Northants vehicle...
I hunted through my Dragon kits, but I don't have a spare to offer, otherwise I'd be happy assist.
Cheers, John
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Post by foxy on Dec 1, 2007 20:40:47 GMT
OK will PM you lol.
Hope you like the fret lol.
'Right sent them', and think they will do fine, they should suit the problem you are haveing. ;D
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