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Post by COLIN SHIPTON-KNIGHT on Oct 3, 2007 19:13:37 GMT
Hello all!
Wow how to start this thread?
I am involved in the Photo Recce SIG, and we have a couple of members who have mentioned that, of course, armour was used for Reconnaissance......and they are completely right! I had not thought of it....
When I started the Photo Recce SIG last year I had no idea of where it would go or how it would develop, but it soon became apparent that Recce covers a lot of ground, and water.......(?)
My modeling only covers aircraft, and that was my emphasis, however I am a firm believer in ALL aspects of Recce, so we show all sorts of aircraft models, that are not only Photo Recce, they include weather/radar/electronic/eyeball......not only military but civilian..
It strikes me that there may be some of you that might have an interest in Recce Armour models....................................?
There are two other members, MikeC and JonB, who already have a thread here, who are probably more knowledgeable about armour than I am, if interested in Recce armour, how about talking to them?
Or you can feel free to contact me, I would like to see some armour Recce models starting to show within the Recce SIG...
Dare I ask, any one got something they would like to display under Recce banner this year? I know it's late in the day, but I had not really thought of it before.....Have read all threads....Pink Land Rover's, I never knew.
Possibly big display next year in conjunction with AVON branch, on Recce Theme, armour content an interesting possibility...
Colin
colinshipton-knight@blueyonder.co.uk
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jonb
Kit Basher
Posts: 137
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Post by jonb on Oct 4, 2007 11:19:00 GMT
If by knowledgable you mean 'has a book' I will gladly own up ( ;D) but I think the real expertise is amongst you tankie types, I am merely dabbling (hence my earlier post regarding the Chaffee). There must be plenty of you with recon types already built, fancy adding them to the recon sig display ?
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MikeC
Moderator
Too many SIGs for my own good!
Posts: 804
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Post by MikeC on Oct 4, 2007 19:01:28 GMT
"There are two other members, MikeC and JonB, who already have a thread here, who are probably more knowledgeable about armour than I am," Can't speak for JonB, but my knowledge of armour is: - My father drove armoured cars in the Recce Corps. - Tanks have tracks, everything else except half-tracks doesn't. - I can identify a T-34, Panther, Tiger, Sherman (not the variant though), German "Puma" and JS-2, primarily because I once built the Airfix kits of same. - Ditto a WWI Mk IV as I built one in 2005 following a holiday in the Somme area. - Targets for Typhoons (old sort), Hurricanes, Ju-87Gs, Hs-129s and Il-2s. That, I fear, is pretty much it. So come on all you Treadheads, how about adding to the collective SIG knowledge and bringing some armoured recce to the party? (Fl**pin' typos!)
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Post by sanguin on Oct 5, 2007 9:58:46 GMT
Having my primary interest in things Swedish, this is alien territory for me. However, Classic Military Vehicle 69, Feb 2007, has a nice article by the illustrious David Fletcher on the Recconnaisance Corps with pictures. Beaverettes, Universal Carriers, Humber light recce cars and MkIVs, Dingos and jeeps all seem suitable WWII vehicles. The Elite book on British Recconnaisance Corps of WWII is available from Amazon and for those proficient in German, Helion & Co offer 'Und Die Aufklarer Sind Immer Dabei' by C. Schwier as a history of German Army recce from horse to Luchs. No, I don't have any German beyond 'Zwei grosse bier, bitte, und mein freund gepayen', a useful phrase passed on to me be a kind godfather.... Recce could also cover the pre D Day (and Anzio) beach parties that probed the sand and shallows from canoes - nice project for any light box enthusiast out there! There were Canadian and other Commonwealth recce units in WWII, and doubtless the Americans had their forces doing the same thing. As for WWI and before, I assume that the horse prevailed. For those into US history we have Indian scouts.... A elderly friend of mine drove cavalry scout troop Dingos in the mid 50s when on National Service. Based in Germany he was of the opinion that the Russians were no risk at all; the greatest hazard he feared was an officer with a map or, much more lethal, an officer driving anything cross-country. And no, he has no photos of any vehicles.... I suspect that Colin has suggested a topic that could get very interesting over the next few months for those willing to follow the more obscure byways of both history and modelling. Have fun!
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Post by Paul Senter on Oct 5, 2007 10:27:44 GMT
You could say that any light armoured vehicle could make a worthwhile addition to the Recce SIG. With aircraft a specific modification has to be made by way of removing guns, adding cameras and sometimes repainting and losing excess weight. With ground units a Panzer 1 is a Panzer 1 whether its on a recce mission or supporting ground troops in an infantry attack.
There are recce specific vehicles out there but then again if necessary they are also used in more combatant roles too. The PR aircraft can only be used as PR aircraft and as such are distinctly different from other variants.
You could argue that the Armour section of the Recce SIG is enormous covering all light role military vehicles as they could all be used for recce purposes or very specific if you are only talking about the likes of Scimitar, and similar types.
Thoughts anyone?
Paul
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jonb
Kit Basher
Posts: 137
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Post by jonb on Oct 5, 2007 10:53:31 GMT
Hello Paul, I undertsand completly your points regarding afv's and recce (weren't Wittmans Tigers on a recce when he took them to Villers Bocage) ? but a Hawker Typhoon on an armed recce is ....excatly that, a normal Typhoon - there were PR Typhoons (camera in palce of a canon) but almost any aircraft was used for some form of recce so I think Colin and the sig may need to draw up some parameters. Looking at the Osprey Elite on the Recon Corps shows them with M3 half tracks with ruddy great howitzers on the back providing fire support in Italy, so whilst in the recce corps markings and on their strength would they count as recce vehicles (bearing in mind that they werent used for recce) ? Still, best not to get bogged down in the detial, I am hoping to get a Do 217 in on the basis of weather recce !!!
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Post by Paul Senter on Oct 5, 2007 11:57:04 GMT
Jon
I take your points and agree with them totally. I think we do need to define the parameters along the lines of:
Specific Recce variant vehicles (Scimitar in Armd Inf Recce Pl for instance)
or
Any vehicle as long as it is specifically identified as 'recce' based on unit designation and/or markings.
What we dont want is Wittmans Tiger for instance just cos it was 'doing a recce' there is nothing there to tell the casual observer that this vehicle is a recce vehicle which it clearly isn't.
A Humber in the markings of a Light Cav unit in the recce role is on the other hand acceptable.
Perhaps we should treat the Armd Recce part of the Recce SIG as a Group build ie define set parameters for the build for a particular event and take it from there.
Paul
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jonb
Kit Basher
Posts: 137
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Post by jonb on Oct 5, 2007 14:11:14 GMT
Sounds good to me Paul, perhaps we should discuss with Colin and other interested parties at the recce meeting at SMW (hoping you are going)
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Post by sanguin on Oct 5, 2007 16:14:32 GMT
Oops, didn't mean to cause a fuss.... My comments on the AFV recce suggestion were both serious and a bit tongue-in-cheek; somehow I suspect that buckskin breeches and mocassins on an Indian scout hardly make him an AFV.... However, recce does cover a multitude of possibilities and keeping it specific for your purposes makes a lot of sense. Why, without some strict parameters we may even find a deerstalkered Wallace peering through a magnifying glass and questing for clues as a potential Recce entry.... Sanguin the silent.
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Post by COLIN SHIPTON-KNIGHT on Oct 5, 2007 19:17:16 GMT
Hey guy's,
I'm finding this fascinating.......No experience of the 'armour' world and am aware their are 'vagaries' regarding what could or not be included under "Recce" banner......
I have no magic answers to 'parameters' of what should be included or not........but I am most interested in discussion...........
I do take the point of aircraft having to be modified/altered in some way, to perform Recce and would lean towards that with Armour....whether it be by basic design or unit use......but....?
Already been contacted by some one who is interested in 'figures', and I find it difficult to deny the argument, some Regiments of 'foot soldiers' were used for Recce.....and that is where it all started...
Will be most happy to discuss at SMW 2007, but have no terribly pre defined ideas.....But do want to include, and be seen to include, Armour! Be nice to see something different.
The really difficult one I feel would be including naval models.........?
Keep going! This is fascinating....and who knows where it is going to go.......
Colin
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Post by COLIN SHIPTON-KNIGHT on Oct 5, 2007 19:21:34 GMT
Sanguin,
Hey surely some one 'peering' through a telescope should be included as "Recce", I would be happy to show a model like that..........
Hell, you got one?
Colin
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Post by Paul Senter on Oct 8, 2007 7:59:40 GMT
Speaking from a purely modern point of view, all modern line Infantry Battalions have a Recce Platoon of some description. My last unit before retiring was an Armd Inf Bn and they're recce platoon was equipped with Scimitar.
I am sure the same can be said for WW2 era Battalions and a little research will turn up an abundance of examples that could be modelled, I am sure.
I think the inclusion of figures is a great idea, could show recce through the ages from Roman legionnaires to Napolenic Cavalry and Apache scouts right through to the spotting balloons, aircraft and military vehicles. At this rate we could have our own SMW!
Colin has started something now - climb aboard the recce roller coaster woo hoo.
Paul
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Post by sanguin on Oct 8, 2007 19:32:44 GMT
Colin, what have you done? You've triggered a whole new bunch of enthusiasm; this recce roller coaster has the momentum of a downhill racing steam roller..... And no, I don't have a model of anyone or anything with binoculars, a telescope, a magnifying glass or even bifocals. But a glass sphere used to foretell the future....the ultimate in recce, I think! John
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Post by airfixteen on Oct 8, 2007 19:42:34 GMT
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Post by airfixteen on Oct 8, 2007 20:20:50 GMT
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